Hearing :: Hearing: Advancing U.S. Interests Through the OSCE

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UNITED STATES COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE

(HELSINKI COMMISSION) HOLDS HEARING

ADVANCING U.S. INTERESTS THROUGH THE OSC



SEPTEMBER 15, 200


               COMMISSIONERS


               U.S. REPRESENTATIVE CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH (R-NJ

                         CHAIRMA

               U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FRANK R. WOLF (R-VA

               U.S. REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPH R. PITTS (R-PA

               U.S. REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT B. ADERHOLT (R-AL

               U.S. REPRESENTATIVE ANNE M. NORTHUP (R-KY

               U.S. REPRESENTATIVE BENJAMIN L. CARDIN (D-MD

               U.S. REPRESENTATIVE LOUISE MCINTOSH SLAUGHTER (D-NY

               U.S. REPRESENTATIVE ALCEE L. HASTINGS (D-FL

               U.S. REPRESENTATIVE MIKE MCINTYRE (D-NC


               U.S. SENATOR BEN NIGHTHORSE CAMPBELL (R-CO

                         CO-CHAIRMA

               U.S. SENATOR SAM BROWNBACK (R-KS

               U.S. SENATOR GORDON H. SMITH (R-OR

               U.S. SENATOR KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON (R-TX

               U.S. SENATOR SAXBY CHAMBLISS (R-GA

               U.S. SENATOR CHRISTOPHER J. DODD (D-CT

               U.S. SENATOR BOB GRAHAM (D-FL

               U.S. SENATOR RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD (D-WI

               U.S. SENATOR HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY



WITNESSES/PANELISTS


A. ELIZABETH JONE

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE

EUROPEAN AND EURASIAN AFFAIR


STEPHEN G. RADEMAKE

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE

ARMS CONTRO


MICHAEL G. KOZA

ACTING ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE

DEMOCRACY, HUMAN RIGHTS, AND LABO


The hearing was held at 10:00 a.m. in Room 334 Cannon House Office Building,

Washington, D.C., [Representative Christopher H. Smith (R-NJ), chairman, 
moderating


     [*

SMITH:  The hearing will come to order.  And before we begin our

proceedings, I would like to extend a very warm welcome to Jerry Grafstein, a 
member

of the Senate in Canada, a good friend.  We have worked very closely together 
on a

number of OSCE issues, particularly in the Parliamentary Assembly.  He's served 
as

our treasurer, which has kept us in the black for quite a long time, but has 
been

doing a great job on a number of issues.  We've worked very closely on issues 
such

as anti-Semitism, trafficking and all of the important human rights issues.  
And I'd

like to yield to Jerry just if he'd like to say anything. 


But you are more than welcome


He has been here before when we had our summit on trafficking.  About a year

ago, Jerry was a very able and very important participant.  And he was one of 
the co

leaders of the effort to bring human trafficking -- to bring anti-Semitism, I 
should

say, forward in the OSCE countries and was very active in the Berlin 
conference, the

Vienna conference and, of course, our parliamentary assemblies. 


So I yield to my good friend, Jerry Grafstein [Member, Senate of Canada, and

Treasurer, OSCE Parliamentary Assembly]


GRAFSTEIN:  Thank you very much.  I'm delighted to be here.  I wasn't planning 
to

come and attend, but I was at a Canada-U.S. interparliamentary meeting the last

couple of days here in Washington.  I'm co-chairman of the Canada-U.S.

Interparliamentary Group, and I'm also the number two officer at the OSCE and 
have

been active there for 10 years and have been on our parliamentary committee for 
that

length of time


I discovered at the OSCE that it is the most important institution in the

world, international institution, after the United Nations.  And I think we do 
quiet

and effective work.  Our problem is that our profile and the knowledge of both 
our

publics both here in Canada and in the United States is not very well known. 


And I guess that's the deficit, Chris, that you and I share.  We haven't

done as good a job of publicizing the OSCE.  I thought maybe one of the things 
we

could do is change the acronyms.  We could just call it great and just leave it 
at

that. 


But I want to commend the Helsinki Commission, all the members, Chris and

others in the United States.  Because over and over again from my observation 
-- and

it's been an important issue of human rights, whether it's human trafficking or 
anti

Semitism or the issues that I'm interested in, which is economic development in 
the

Middle East -- I turn to my American colleagues for leadership and for comfort. 
 And

so, I just want to commend everybody on the commission and particularly your 
staff

who have done such a fabulous job


If I have some problems in terms of giving out some information or a factum,

I just call Chris or the staff here at the commission.  And they've done a 
superb

job.  So I'm proud, really proud to be a member of the OSCE.  But I'm even 
prouder

of my American colleagues who time and time again have shown leadership where 
there

was no leadership at the OSCE.  So I want to commend them.  And I'm here to 
listen

with great interest to what your officials have to say and hopefully 
participate. 

Thank you


SMITH:  Thank you very much, Senator Grafstein.  And again, thank you for

joining us today


I would like to say before I begin my opening statement just how grateful we

are to the department for designating countries that absolutely ought to be on 
the

countries of particular concern list, including Saudi Arabia, Vietnam and 
Eritrea. 

I think the additions of those countries to the list of egregious violators 
when it

comes to religious freedom and the important determination has been made by the

determination is to be heralded and to be commended because the facts are

overwhelming


We recently had the Human Rights In Vietnam Act up on the floor of the

House.  I was a prime sponsor of it.  And doing the research and the work on it 
--

and it's been passed before only to die over on the Senate side, which may 
happen

again this year -- but what was very clear is that there has been a demonstrable

decline in religious freedom in Vietnam.  There has been a ratcheting up,

particularly against the Montagnard, against evangelicals, against the Buddhist

church and anyone who is not aligned with the government


The most recent enactment of legislation in Vietnam which will further

tighten and circumscribe the ability of people to exercise their faith goes into

effect in  just a couple of months.  And that will make it even worse.  So I 
want to

commend the department and President Bush for those designations.  They are well

received by the human rights community, I can assure you. 


And I thank you, Beth. 


And I thank all of you for that


I am very happy to welcome you to this Helsinki Commission hearing on

advancing U.S. interests through the OSCE.  I'm very pleased to have several

distinguished panelists present today and look forward to hearing their 
testimonies


The title of this hearing is no accident.  Since its inception nearly 30

years ago, the OSCE has been one of the staunchest allies of the beliefs and 
goals

of the United States and our friends like Canada and the United Kingdom.  It has

multiplied the avenues through which we can promote the rule of law and human

rights.  It pioneered the broad definition of security that recognizes true

stability does not depend on stockpiles of arms or standing armies, but on

democratic principles, respect for fundamental human rights and good neighborly

conduct


It legitimized the idea that a nation's domestic policies are the rightful

concern of other OSCE states.  As it reinforced these critical standards, the

organization also evolved into a strong and flexible body with arguably more 
tools

for addressing regional problems than any other international institution


And I think Jerry made a very good point about this being such an important

and yet under-heralded organization


The broad membership, the clearly articulated principles, the well designed

political structure make the OSCE an especially appropriate partner of the 
United

States.  Today we have the opportunity to hear the State Department's vision on 
how

this organization can be most effectively utilized and how these key policy 
makers

intend to initiate activities and support policies through the OSCE that will

advance U.S. objectives


Let me say at the outset how appreciative I am of the diligence and dogged

persistence of the U.S. ambassador to the OSCE, Ambassador Steven Minikes.  He 
has

done a tremendous job and deserves much credit and recognition for his 
leadership in

Vienna.  I note parenthetically that when we hold our parliamentary assemblies 
and

our winter conferences, Steve is there right next to us advising, providing very

useful counsel and insights.  And we deeply appreciate that


This year we had an excellent example of how the initiative can be seized to

make impressive contributions to the well being of the entire region while 
focusing

on issues of particular concern to the U.S.  The arms control bureau of the 
State

Department deserves praise for seeing the opportunities afforded at the OSCE to

contribute to hard security issues.  They presided over a strong U.S. chairman 
of

the forum for security cooperation, helping to revitalize that part of the

organization.  They used it to pass agreements on management and destruction of

excess ammunition, export controls on manned portable air defense systems and 
the

transfer of light arms


The work of the FSC complimented that undertaking of the organization as a

whole to conform travel documents to address proliferation of weapons of mass

destruction and to discuss better cooperation on border security and the 
control of

shipping containers


Every one of these key concerns to the United States and everyone is a trans

national issue requiring that we address it multi-laterally.  This is the kind 
of

robust use of the OSCE that is in our interest and that we would like to see

supported throughout the U.S. government


Over the past 30 years, there has also been great growth and development in

the human dimension, an area of keen interest to this commission.  Next month, 
the

OSCE will hold the annual human dimension implementation meeting in Warsaw.  
This

meeting is a regular opportunity for the participating states to review each 
other's

compliance with our mutual Helsinki commitments to encourage better 
implementation

and publicly question activities that are not consistent with the strong 
standards

of the OSCE


We look forward to a strong presence and participation at this conference

and to hearing the department's priorities for that meeting.  We hope that the 
same

sense of priority and urgency that characterized human rights advocacy during 
the

Cold War will not lag now at a time when we see examples of the starkest 
disregard

of human dignity and our nation and regions suffer acts so brutal that they were

unthinkable only a few years ago


Understanding and upholding human rights is not only the policy that is

ethically consistent with our ideals, but is fundamentally linked to our 
national

and regional security but has never been more important than now.  If a nation

disregards public opinion and the oppression of its own citizens, it will also

ignore violations to the security of its neighbors.  As we came to see in the

Balkans, we ignore the warning signs of abusive acts at our own peril


We have a great deal of work to do in this field.  The lives of many are

still on the line in the countries of Central Asia and periodically elsewhere 
in the

OSCE, especially if one is a democratic activist, outspoken journalist or 
religious

proponent.  The creeping shadow of a rising anti-Semitism continues to threaten

Europe.  And the blight of trafficking in human beings is increasing


Addressing economic development and environmental challenges is also

important.  These are linked to fundamental matters of opportunity and trust in

government and to stabilizing societies through the confident forum of economic 
well

being


My good friend and colleague, Ben Cardin who has a special role in this area

will elaborate more on this topic.  But just let me mention that it has never 
been

more timely in the less developed areas of the OSCE need consistent attention 
if we

are not going to see political will undermined by the impatience that comes from

economic necessity


We also hope to hear what the administration's focus is for the forthcoming

Sofia ministerial meeting in December.  The issue that probably will have the

greatest impact on the evolution of the organization and on our ability to 
further

U.S. interests through it is the selection of the next secretary general.  
Members

of this commission are actively interested in seeing a strong leader in this 
office


As you know, we have written to Secretary Powell on the matter and will be

following up in the near future.  The world has changed in recent years for all 
of

us.  As the OSCE takes on daunting challenges, it will benefit from a potent 
public

face and a strong managing hand to compliment the political role of the rotating

chairmanship


Other important issues that should be considered in Sofia include addressing

expanded election commitments such as electronic voting and voting rights of

internally displaced persons, enhancing the capability to fight human 
trafficking,

continuing efforts on anti-Semitism, the appropriate role of the Mediterranean

partners and addressing the concerns in the statement of July 8th by the nine 
CIS

members


Regarding the current discussions concerning refining and strengthening the

LSCE, I look forward to the administration's views on the various comments by 
the

chair in office, Bulgaria's foreign minister, Solomon Passy.  He has expressed

support for a, quote, "better thematic as well as geographical balance within 
the

OSCE," as also called for by nine CIS countries.


Ambassador Passy has also proposed relocating meetings of the economic forum

to Central Asia from Vienna and the HDIM to South Caucasus.  Structurally, he 
has

also advocated stronger political leadership for the secretary general and the 
chair

in office and deeper inclusion of the Parliamentary Assembly of the OSCE


Again, we have a very fine set of panelists.


And I'd like to recognize my good friend and ranking member of the

commission, Ben Cardin, for any opening comments he might have


CARDIN:  Well, thank you very much, Chairman Smith.  And I thank you very

much for convening this hearing to give us an opportunity to meet with our

representatives to review the role that the United States should be playing in 
the

OSCE and to look at ways that we can improve the effectiveness of the U.S.

participation. 


And as you know, the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe is

unique in that it is an independent commission.  And we're very pleased to have

representatives from the executive department as well as the legislative 
department

serving together as commissioners to carry out the mission of the United States 
in

the OSCE


I also want to welcome Senator Grafstein to our commission here today.  The

United States has no greater friend in the OSCE than Senator Grafstein.  He's 
been a

constant supporter and we've worked together on strategies to set priorities 
within

the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly to advance the interests of both of our 
countries


So it's a pleasure once again


But he's a frequent guest here, so we can't give him too good of an

introduction every time because our hearings will get longer and longer.  But 
it's a

pleasure to have Senator Grafstein with us today


Mr. Chairman, let me just very briefly comment as to where I think we've

been and where we need to review.  The OSCE was very helpful in the Cold War,

bringing an end to the Cold War.  It's the largest regional organization.  It 
gives

us the ability to communicate with all of Europe and now Central Asia and to 
advance

U.S. interests. 


We now need to look at what should the current role be.  And we have seen it

being very helpful to us as we've dealt with issues such as trafficking of human

beings, anti-Semitism, in dealing with a whole range of issues, including 
building

democratic institutions in countries that need that type of attention, which is

certainly in the U.S. interest


So the OSCE is perhaps even more important today than it was before the fall

of the Soviet Union.  I'm very honored to chair the Committee of the Second

Committee which deals with economics and the environment in the OSCE 
Parliamentary

Assembly.  And I appreciate the support I've received from Ambassador Minikes 
and

Assistant Secretary Bill Lash from commerce who is a member of our commission 
as we

have developed strategies understanding the relationship between economic

development, human rights and security issues, that they're all tied together.  
We

need to make advancements in all of those issues


The Maastricht document on economics was, of course, the first major

document in over a decade which really spells out, I think, the priorities of 
our

country and where we need to be in leadership, particularly in fighting 
corruption

and developing strategies to fight corruption. 


In Edinburgh we reinforced that in the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly and

reinforced the calling of a meeting of the ministers of justice and interior to

develop an anti-corruption strategy.  And I hope that we will find the support 
to

get that moving in all of the, including state, to make sure we get that 
moving.  I

think it's extremely important that we advance the anti-corruption agendas and 
the

building of the economies, particularly in the emerging democracies of Europe 
and

Central Asia.  It's an important priority, and I hope that we can develop a 
common

strategy


I want to mention one other point, if I might, Mr. Chairman.  And I think

there's clearly need for improvement in the relationship between the executive

branch and the congressional members of the commission as it relates to charges 
that

are brought against the United States.  In the last several years, we have 
received

international interest in the way that we treat unlawful combatants, 
particularly in

Guantanamo Bay and now in Iraq.  And we've had a relationship with the executive

branch in visiting Guantanamo Bay and getting information. 


But quite frankly, Mr. Chairman, I don't think that relationship has been as

strong as it should be.  And the trust has not been there so that we have the

information we need in order to represent the interests of this country in our

international meetings.  And I would hope there would be more confidence 
expressed

by the executive branch.  After all, we're in the commission together -- and 
that we

open up more to the types of charges that are brought internationally so that 
we can

represent this nation as strongly as we possibly can


So I think there's room for improvement.  I hope that this hearing will help

us establish that close relationship that has existed traditionally between the

executive branch, the legislative branch in the OSCE work.  And I look forward 
to

hearing from our witnesses


SMITH:  Thank you very much, Commissioner Cardin


Commissioner McIntyre


MCINTYRE:  Thank you very much.  As the newest member of the commission, I

particularly was proud of the work that our United States delegation did over in

Edinburgh, Scotland and proud of our colleague, Alcee Hastings', election and 
the

unity and bipartisan effort of our work together.  And I look forward to today's

hearing and in the interest of time will defer any further comments until a 
later

statement.  But thank you all for letting us join with you today


Mr. Chairman


SMITH:  I'd like to recognize the president of the OSCE Parliamentary

Assembly, Alcee Hastings, for any comment he might have


HASTINGS:  Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.  I echo Mike's sentiments

about time and Ben's sentiment about Jerry Grafstein.  Thank you for holding 
this

hearing


And, Jerry, I'll extend to you an invitation, if we can catch up, to have an

opportunity to talk with you personally at some point today


I look forward to hearing from our witnesses, particularly Ms. Jones, who

I'm hopeful I'll be able to stay long enough to ask a couple of questions, Mr.

Chairman


SMITH:  Thank you very much, Mr. Hastings


Now, I'd like to introduce our very distinguished panel.  But before doing

that, just note that the new foreign minister of Montenegro is here, Vlahovic


Mr. Vlahovic, if you wouldn't mind just acknowledging.  Thank you for being

here. And we just wish you well, and we look forward to working with you.  I 
would

note parenthetically we're very pleased working with Montenegro and Serbia that

there has been real movement in the area of human trafficking.  And I know 
that's of

high interest to you. 


As you know, you used to be on that tier three, egregious violator, which

you took some very, very profound actions to crack down on trafficking.  And I 
know

you're working on prosecution.  So we deeply appreciate that.  Everyone who 
cares

about human rights are grateful for what you're doing


Let me now introduce Assistant Secretary Elizabeth Jones who was sworn in as

assistant secretary for European/Eurasian affairs on May 31st of '01.  She 
joined

the foreign service in 1970.  Her overseas assignments concentrated in the 
Middle

East, South Asia and Germany include Kabul, Islamabad, New Delhi, Baghdad, 
Cairo,

Beirut, Tunis, West Berlin, Bonn. 


She has served as ambassador to the Republic of Kazakhstan in Washington. 

She was the Lebanon desk officer, deputy director for Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and

Iraq, principal deputy, assistant secretary in the Near East bureau.  She has 
also

served as executive assistant secretary to Warren Christopher and directed the

office of the Caspian base in energy diplomacy. 


Beth Jones was born in Germany while her parents were assigned there with

the U.S. foreign service.  She attended high schools in Moscow and West Berlin 
while

her parents were on diplomatic assignments there.  She graduated from Swarthmore

College and earned a Masters Degree from Boston University.  Ambassador Jones 
speaks

Russian, German and Arabic.  She is married and has two children.  We hope 
she'll

speak English today. 


Assistant Secretary Stephen Rademaker -- as Jerry Grafstein mentioned a

moment ago, how important staff is.  I know because I serve on the International

Relations Committee.  Steve was the general counsel for the House International

Relations Committee and wrote, literally penned much of the legislation that 
came

out of that committee, particularly under Mr. Gilman who served as chairman, was

extraordinarily gifted. 


And some of his background includes that he was the chief counsel as well to

the House Select Committee on Homeland Security.  He held positions, as I 
mentioned,

on the House Committee of International Relations, including deputy staff 
director,

chief counsel and minority chief.  From '92 to 1993, Mr. Rademaker served as 
general

counsel of the Peace Corps.  He has held a joint appointment as associate 
counsel to

the president in the office of counsel to the president as deputy legal adviser 
to

the National Security Council, served as special assistant to the assistant

secretary of state for inter-American affairs and counts to the vice chairman 
of the

U.S. International Trade Commission. 


In 1986, he was a law clerk for the Honorable James L. Buckley of the U.S.

Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia.  From '84 to '86, he was 
associate at

the Washington, D.C. law firm of Covington and Burling.  Mr. Rademaker has 
received

from the University of Virginia a B.A. with highest distinction, a J.D. and 
M.A. in

foreign affairs. 


Acting Assistant Secretary Michael Kozak will be our next witness.  He is

the principal deputy assistant secretary for democracy, human rights and labor. 
 He

assumed his position in September of '03.  He has served as ambassador to 
Belarus,

chief of the U.S. intersections in Cuba, principal deputy legal adviser of the

Department of State and principal deputy assistant secretary of state for inter

American affairs


Ambassador Kozak was assistant to U.S. negotiator for Panama for the canal

treaties under President Nixon, Ford and Carter and participated in the multi

lateral efforts to mediate an end to the Nicaraguan civil war in 1978 to 1979.  
He

was a member of the U.S. mediation team that implemented the Egypt/Israel peace

treaty and sought a solution to the conflict in Lebanon


Ambassador Kozak served as a special presidential envoy while dealing with

the crisis in Panama provoked by General Noriega's attempt to overthrow the

constitutional government.  As a special negotiator for Haiti, Mr. Kozak helped

coordinate the U.S. policy to restore democratically elected government.  In 
1996,

he was named as chief of the U.S. diplomatic mission in Cuba.  In 2000, Michael

Kozak was named to serve as U.S. ambassador, like I said, to Belarus


Let me just -- OK, thank you


Secretary Jones, if you could make your presentation


JONES:  Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.  I very much appreciate the

opportunity as do my colleagues to appear before the commission again this 
year.  We

want very much to focus on how we would like to work with the commission and 
work in

the OSCE to advance U.S. policy objectives.  We believe that the OSCE has made 
major

contributions toward democracy, peace and stability across Europe throughout its

tenure, but especially through the past year


At the same time, I would like to say that the OSCE's success is really not

possible without the strong congressional support that you represent.  We want 
to

thank especially the Helsinki Commission and the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly.  
And

at this juncture, I'd like especially to congratulate Congressman Hastings for 
his

election as the president of the Parliamentary Assembly.  We look forward very 
much

to working with you to support the assembly's meeting next year


We share very much the enthusiasm of the commission for the OSCE.  At the

same time, we feel very strongly that strong U.S. leadership is key to the 
OSCE's

contribution to the U.S. goal of a Europe whole, free and at peace.  Virtually

everything we do with the commission and in the OSCE is focused on that goal


To that end, the OSCE agenda is our agenda.  We believe that our

participation advances U.S. interests in promoting democracy, human rights, good

governance and arms control.  And we believe the OSCE has a very important and 
rich

role in helping to fight the global war on terror


The OSCE is unique in its capabilities in the way that they add value for

the United States.  We think that the OSCE is a model of effective 
multi-lateralism

in the way that President Bush spoke of it last winter.  Two particular 
examples I'd

like to cite.  One is in burden sharing


The OSCE allows the U.S. to share cost, to coordinate and avoid duplication

in our policy efforts.  The OSCE can bring the weight of 55 nations to bear on

problems that no one country can solve alone.  The other great strength of the 
OSCE

is its field missions and ODIHR.  There are 17 field missions from Albania to

Uzbekistan that work every day for democracy and the other baskets in which the 
OSCE

focuses.  The ODIHR is the most respected election observer organization in 
Europe

and Eurasia. 


We also believe the OSCE is a relative bargain for the United States.  We

pay about 10 percent, just over 10 percent of the costs.  And we reap tremendous

benefits, possibly up to 100 percent. 


I'd like to highlight two big successes of the OSCE to demonstrate what it

can do.  These have occurred in the past 12 months.  And it demonstrates the 
force

multiplier that the OSCE provides.  In Georgia, the OSCE election monitoring 
was a

voice of the international community on the flawed elections that took place 
there

last November.  It was the OSCE that helped leverage over $7 million in 
European aid

for new elections that took place earlier this year in Georgia.  OSCE 
monitoring was

key to establishing the new government's legitimacy


Another big success was the Berlin anti-Semitism conference.  It was a

landmark event in raising European awareness of the problem.  It set the stage 
for

follow-up on law enforcement, on legislation and education in this important 
area


I would like especially to applaud you, Mr. Chairman, Congressmen Cardin and

Hastings for joining the secretary in making the conference a success.  There 
are

many other unsung OSCE successes from Kosovo police training to progress toward 
all

55 OSCE members acceding to the U.N. terrorism related conventions


At the same time, OSCE is adapting a new agenda.  U.S. leadership has helped

form that agenda and is focusing on practical outcomes for these particular 
goals. 

On trafficking in persons, which you have each mentioned, we should take credit 
for

creation of a special representative on trafficking.  This was a U.S. 
initiative. 

The U.S. is now helping to shape the OSCE work plan on trafficking.  The OSCE's 
new

code of conduct for its missions is really a model for other international

organizations


Tolerance is also an area in which we should take considerable credit.  The

high profile racism, anti-Semitism conferences were U.S. initiatives.  We're now

pushing for more expert level follow-up from trafficking and hate crimes to

increasing training for police


Counterterrorism is another area where we've taken a leadership role,

particularly in the adoption of tougher travel document security measures and

stricter controls on MANPADS.  At the same time, the OSCE is working hard on the

traditional core mission of democracy and human rights with election observation

where ODIHR provides impartial monitoring of elections in Macedonia, Serbia and

Russia and is again setting the international standard for those elections


I already mentioned the field missions.  This is -- the largest OSCE field

mission is in Kosovo to help and implement the U.N. Security Council enforce

standards.  Smaller missions are in Minsk and Ashkabad that are reaching out to 
the

next generation of civil society.  And I can't applaud those initiatives enough


Looking ahead, the OSCE has an ambitious agenda which is at the same time

key to U.S. policy objectives in election monitoring.  We're sending our first

election assistance team outside of Europe and Eurasia to Afghanistan to provide

support for the historic presidential elections there next month.  The OSCE will

monitor important contests this fall in Ukraine and many other places


On our tolerance agenda, the OSCE is pioneering in its work on fighting

intolerance, which continues with the racism conference that took place in 
Brussels

yesterday and the day before.  The U.S. leadership is very evident in the fact 
that

HUD Secretary Jackson led the delegation


Sofia is our next ministerial of the OSCE.  We are very much working with

the chairman in office, Solomon Passy, to assure practical outcomes for that

ministerial in December.  We hope to reach agreement on establishing a special

representative anti-Semitism at this ministerial to further combat and to take

further steps to combat racism


We will also push again for Russia to fulfill its Istanbul commitment.  And

we expect the ministerial to endorse OSCE work on shipping container security 
and

destruction of excess piles of -- stockpiles of ammunition and weapons. 


There are three challenges that we need to resolve this fall to keep the

OSCE healthy and productive.  You've mentioned each of these, and we look 
forward to

having a discussion on how best to move forward on each of them.  The budget is 
a

particular concern of ours.  We need responsible approaches to resolve 
differences

before the Sofia revision of the OSCE's two scales of assessment


Russia and others seek radical reduction in contributions.  We back

adjustments based on previously agreed upon parameters, which include ceilings 
and

floors based on capacity to pay


You mentioned the importance of selecting the next secretary general.  We

completely agree that this is important.  Chairman in office Passy has made some

suggestions, and others have made suggestions to change the way the secretary

general is -- the secretary general's role, change the level of the secretary

general, which we believe needs careful consideration because it has very 
important

implications


Changing the balance between the secretary general and the chairman in

office could change the OSCE.  That needs careful thought.  At the same time, we

believe it's essential to keep the OSCE's flexibility by minimized and central

control within the organization


The C.S. has called for change in the OSCE.  Russia and others have been

critical of some of the field operations and of ODHIR.  We believe that the OSCE

core mission remains fostering democratic change as the only way to defeat

underlying causes of instability.  The U.S. has been flexible.  We've supported

Russia's effort to strengthen the OSCE's economic and security work.  But we 
will

not agree to reforms that weaken the OSCE's human dimension work


The bottom line for us, Mr. Chairman, is that we believe the OSCE's record

of achievement over the past year is very impressive.  Thank you very much for 
your

mentioning of Ambassador Minikes and the very strong leadership role he has 
played

in ensuring this.  We certainly agree with that.  And we work with him on a 
daily

basis.  I, in fact, was on the phone with him this morning to be sure we were in

concert on the kinds of things that we would be discussing today


We think that the OSCE's agenda for this year is ambitious.  We are leading

that agenda.  The OSCE deserves continued U.S. support because of its 
contributions

to U.S. objectives.  Those contributions are substantial.  The OSCE does face

challenges ahead.  We want to make sure that the OSCE remains a creative, 
flexible

organization able to advance U.S. interests and the interests of all members of 
the

organization


Thank you, Mr. Chairman


SMITH:  Thank you very much, Ambassador Jones.  And appreciate your

testimony


Secretary Rademaker


RADEMAKER:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  It's a pleasure to be back here with

the commission.  It's my first appearance before the commission, but I'm 
certainly

no stranger to the commission and its work having worked with you and your 
former

ranking member, Mr. Hoyer, for many years as well as some of the outstanding 
members

of your staff.  So it is a great pleasure for me to be back here in a slightly

different capacity today


As you know, Mr. Chairman, the regional structure -- well, first of all, let

me say I do have a prepared statement, which I'm submitting for the record.  
But I

will not sit here and read it to you.  I'll tough on some of the key points in 
my

oral presentation


As you know, Mr. Chairman, there is a regional structure of conventional

arms control and CSBMs in place in Europe that goes far beyond what we see in 
any

other part of the world.  And in large measure, this is a legacy of the Helsinki

Final Act, which in its basket three provided a starting point for the evolution

that's occurred over the last 30 years.  And from basket three, we moved on to

things like the conventional armed forces in Europe agreement, the open skies

agreement and most recently, the Vienna document of 1999, all of which have 
enhanced

and broadened the range of arms control and CSBMs in place in Europe


The OSCE is deeply involved in all of these matters. And on a day to day

basis, the OSCE manages the arms control and CSBM issues through what is known 
as

the forum for security cooperation, which within the State Department is 
managed by

the bureau of arms control. 


The FSC has weekly meetings in Vienna.  And the second item on the agenda of

every meeting is something called security dialogue, which is an opportunity 
for any

member of the OSCE to raise any security issue of concern to them.  And many

countries take advantage of this, and it's a very useful opportunity to draw

attention to emerging problems and to get countries thinking about possible

solutions to such problems


Another very important thing that the FSC does is that every year in March

it has an implementation assessment meeting which systematically reviews the

implementation of and compliance with all of the various commitments that 
countries

within the OSCE have made to each other with respect to arms control and

transparency.  The principle focus is on the implementation of the Vienna 
doctrine

of 1999, which is, as you know, a transparency document providing for 
information

exchanges and a system of inspection and evaluation visits of respected 
militaries

within Europe


The annual assessment meeting also looks at implementation of the various

documents that have been adopted through the forum for security cooperation:  
the

1994 code of conduct on the political and military aspects of security, which is

about the relationship of a military to the rest of society in a democracy, the 
2000

document on small arms and light weapons, the 2003 document on stockpiles of

conventional arms.  Under these last two, there's a prospect of assistance to

countries that need assistance in getting rid of small arms and dealing with 
excess

stocks of ammunition.  And the OSCE has received a number of requests for 
assistance

in this area, which it's currently working on


As you noted, Mr. Chairman, the United States chaired the FSC in the fall of

2003.  And the philosophy of our chairmanship was exactly what you suggested.  I

like the term you used:  robust use of the OSCE.  That is the way we approached 
our

chairmanship.  And we believe we were very successful


During our chairmanship, we were able to bring about the adoption of the

document on stockpiles, which I referred to a moment ago.  We also had a 
three-part

agenda that we promoted during our chairmanship:  first, non-proliferation, 
second,

addressing the problem of MANPADS and third, dealing with civil military 
emergency

preparedness


The way we addressed these three things was by taking advantage of the

security dialogue portion of the FSC agenda in a systematic way during our

chairmanship provide presentations on these various issues and get the other

countries thinking about each of these three areas


We were especially successful when it came to MANPADS because what we did

was lay the groundwork for adoption by the OSCE of the Wassenaar arrangements 
export

control regime with regard to MANPADS.  This was something that had the effect 
of

doubling the number of countries around the world that adhere to the Wassenaar

arrangements export control standards for MANPADS.  And so, we do believe that 
made

a material contribution to controlling this threat, which, of course, is one of 
our

great concerns when it comes to potential terrorist attacks on civilians


I did want to mention the adapted CFE treaty, that is, the revised

conventional armed forces in Europe in treaty.  As you probably know, this is 
one of

our biggest frustrations when it comes to arms control in Europe.  The adapted 
CFE

treaty was signed in November of 1999.  And almost five years have gone by.  We 
have

not yet ratified the adapted CFE treaty and it has not come into effect because 
all

of us within NATO agreed that we did not want to proceed to ratification until

Russia had implemented its Istanbul commitments with respect to withdrawing its

forces from Moldova and setting a deadline for closing bases in Georgia


Five years have gone by and Russia still has not implemented these

commitments.  And, as I said, it is a source of great frustration.  The OSCE is

working very hard on this problem.  This is a priority for Ambassador Minikes.  
He

devotes a lot of effort to this. 


The OSCE has established a voluntary fund to try and deal with the financial

aspect of bringing about implementation of the Istanbul commitments.  But

notwithstanding these efforts, we haven't seen much progress.  And this is of

concern to us. 


You may have noticed the defense minister of Russia gave a speech last

February in which he hinted that if the adapted treaty was not soon brought into

effect, Russia might reconsider its adherence to the existing CFE treaty, 
which, of

course, would be of great concern to us.  But this should not be misunderstood 
as a

lack of Russian interest in the adapted CFE treaty because just this year, the

Russian government proceeding in the direction of ratification of the adapted

treaty. 


The state duma, the federation council approved a law which was signed by

President Putin in July to provide for ratification of the adapted CFE treaty.  
So

Russia remains interested in this, they just haven't taken the steps that need 
to be

taken to make it possible for the rest of us to ratify the adapted treaty.  And 
we

will continue to send the message to Russia that there is no shortcut to entry 
into

force of this very important treaty that does not involve full implementation by

them of the Istanbul commitments


One final point that I wanted to make that I know is of interest to some

members of the commission is the degree to which the OSCE and this web of arms

control and CSBMs that is in place in Europe can serve as a model for other 
regions

in the world.  And we believe that it can serve as a model. 


Interestingly, the region of the world that has gone furthest in trying to

adopt some of the measures that are currently in place in Europe is the Western

Hemisphere.  Through the OAS in 2003, there was a declaration of security in the

Americas which drew heavily from the Vienna document of 1999.  There is not an

institutionalized relationship between the OSCE and the OAS.  And I think the

explanation for that is that we don't really need one.  Two of the most 
important

OSCE members, the United States and Canada, are also members of the OAS.  There 
are

nearly a dozen other OSCE members who are observers at the OAS.  And so, there 
is a

lot of day to day interaction between the two organizations.  And I think that's

been very helpful in enabling the OAS to adopt some of the measures that the 
OSCE

pioneered


Asia also has a strong interest in some of the accomplishments that have

been realized within Europe.  There is a more formalized dialogue between the 
OSCE

and some of its Asian partners.  There have been two workshops held in South 
Korea

in 2000 and 2001 to look at possible application of Vienna document concepts in

Asia.  And then in Tokyo in March of this year, the Japanese government hosted a

conference with the OSCE to look at the same question


In the Middle East, there is an annual meeting between the OSCE and the

Mediterranean partners.  But I guess I would say candidly that we're not as far

advanced in working with Middle Eastern countries as we are in the Western

Hemisphere and in Asia in exploring the applicability of OSCE models to other

regions.  But we do have an office within the arms control bureau that is in the

business of promoting CSBMs all over the world.  And I can assure you that they 
work

closely with our experts on the OSCE to continue pursuing this question of what 
we

can learn from the European experience


Thank you, Mr. Chairman


SMITH:  Secretary Rademaker, thank you very much for your testimony and your

leadership


Ambassador Kozak


KOZAK:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  And I particularly wanted to thank you and

your colleagues for your long-standing commitment to the hard work of human 
rights

and democracy.  I'm also pleased to be joining some old compatriots in that same

struggle,  Beth Jones and Steve Rademaker at this important hearing


As with Secretary Rademaker, this is my first appearance as a witness before

this commission.  But it's not the first time I've had the pleasure of working 
with

you and with your excellent staff.  I see Dorothy and Ron and Orest, too.  We 
spent

many long times together when I was working on Belarus


And I think for me that was one of the greatest demonstrations of the value

of the OSCE.  That tiny OSCE mission in Belarus in Minsk was really the beacon 
of

hope for human rights activists and democracy activists in that country.  And it

really shows what a small commitment of OSCE resources can do


Next year will mark the 30th anniversary of the Helsinki Final Act.  And I

remember former Secretary Schultz saying that at the time it was signed, no one

really realized the potential impact of the human rights provisions of that

document.  In fact, he said that in his opinion, it was one of the crucial 
turning

points of the Cold War when at Helsinki we made it OK to talk to the Soviets 
about

human rights.  Before that, they would brush aside references to human rights 
and

democracy as an intervention in internal affairs


The fact that the democratically elected government of Bulgaria is now

serving as the OSCE chair in office, something unimaginable in 1975, shows just 
how

far we have come.  If other countries have mature democratic processes, life 
becomes

relatively easy for the United States because the people in those countries 
will use

those processes for correcting any errors of policy or management before they 
become

big problems for the international community.  So I think there's a very good

practical side to why we want to be promoting democracy through organizations 
such

as the OSCE


Unfortunately despite the huge advances in Eastern Europe, democracy -- and

until recently in Russia itself -- a democracy deficit continues to plague many

countries of the OSCE.  Since the commission's last hearing, we've seen 
seriously

flawed elections or worse in a number of countries.  But we have seen progress, 
too


The reaction of the Georgian people to the blatant fraud committed in

Georgia's parliamentary elections shows the governments that engage in efforts 
to

manipulate electoral process do so at their own peril.  ODHIR involvement in

assisting Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan to revise their electoral laws 
in

the past year have been remarkably successful.  While none of their respective 
laws

are fully compliant with OSCE commitments, they have all been brought far 
closer to

meeting international standards.  Rule of law based on democratic principles and

commitments is another lynch pin of democratic society.  Here the OSCE is 
helping by

analyzing participating states' legislation and recommending amendments to meet 
OSCE

standards. 


The OSCE can also bolster participating states' capacity to enforce the law

consistently and impartially.  ODHIR has had several notable success stories in

Central Asia, especially in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan where governments have

transferred authority for prison administration to the ministries of justice


There can be no democracy without media freedom.  And unfortunately the

situation for journalists and some OSCE participating states has worsened since 
the

last hearing.  Ukraine and Belarus have intensified their assault on the 
independent

media in the run-up to the October elections in those countries by harassing,

intimidating, fighting and at times imprisoning independent journalists and by

closing down independent media outlets. 


Turkmenistan recently took steps to clamp down further, if that's possible,

creating a national press service to supervise print media.  Actions in Russia 
over

the past few years also raise serious questions about its commitment to media

freedom


Miklos Haraszti, the new representative for media freedom of OSCE, has made

it one of his first major initiatives to urge governments to decriminalize the 
libel

laws.  Having watched the Belarussian government use such laws to criminalize 
policy

differences, I can only wish Mr. Haraszti the greatest success in this 
endeavor. 

The U.S. has made an extra budgetary contribution to this project


Active civil society is one of the most important components in a thriving

democracy.  NGOs continue their courageous work despite harassment in several

countries.  In fiscal year 2004, the U.S. provided over $400 million to support

democratic development in the OSCE region.  Our assistance is described in some

length in the book, "Supporting Human Rights and Democracy," a report that we do

annually to the Congress.  I think there are copies available here at the 
hearing

room


Religious freedom is fundamental to democratic development.  As we speak,

Secretary Powell and Ambassador Hanford are presenting the CPC designations,

announcing them publicly that you mentioned earlier, Mr. Chairman.  And I think

those speak for themselves.  That countries like Saudi Arabia are on that list 
shows

that the president's statement that the Middle East was no longer immune to

discussion of human rights is proving out in practice


They also are presenting as we speak the international religious freedom

report, which is, again, another report required by law and which we all worked 
very

hard on.  So I think that will be the news on the religious freedom front today

rather than anything I say, is what they have to say and what we have had to do 
on

religious freedom.  And I think as you look at that report, you can see quite a 
bit

of detail on the state of religious freedom within the OSCE region as well as 
the

rest of the world


All OSCE states must continue to root out extremism and terrorism.  We all

have a responsibility to assure that human rights are protected even as we 
combat

terrorism.  And in this respect, the deplorable treatment of Iraqi detainees at 
the

hands of U.S. military personnel in Iraq was a stain on the honor of our 
nation. 

When President Bush expressed his deep disgust and regret about the events at 
Abu

Ghraib, it wasn't just his personal reaction as a matter of principle.  It was 
also

his reaction as the head of state of a country that holds itself to the same 
high

standard to which we hold others


As President Bush said, one of the key differences between democracies and

dictatorships is that free countries confront such abuses openly and directly.  
We

expose the truth, hold all who bear responsibility fully accountable and bring 
them

to justice and then take action to be sure that abuses don't recur.  We take our

OSCE commitment seriously, and we will keep the OSCE appraised as investigations

proceed.  We're also organizing a site event at the upcoming human dimension

conference in Warsaw where we will address the issue of prisoner abuse and U.S.

measures to bring about accountability


U.S. supports OSCE's effort to eliminate all forms of torture.  As that word

is defined in the convention against torture, in President Bush's statement on

torture victims' day and by common sense.  We will continue to press individual 
OSCE

participating states to end torture as a matter of policy and to hold human 
rights

abusers accountable


A crucial component in the fight against terrorism is promotion of

tolerance.  As Secretary Jones just elaborated in her testimony, we applaud the

OSCE's efforts to fight racism, anti-Semitism, religious intolerance and other 
forms

of xenophobia and discrimination.  Much remains to be done, however, and we look

forward to the naming of special representatives to further our collective 
efforts

in this regard


One lesson I learned during my time in Belarus is that the OSCE is only as

strong as its participating states.  When the chair in office and members give 
field

missions their full backing, they are able effectively to challenge repressive

regimes and to bring about hope and progress.  When the chair in office and 
other

member states try to appease a repressive regime, more repression and more

illegitimate demands are the inevitable result


This means that member states must use the full range of incentives, both

positive and negative available to them to encourage democratic progress and to

deter abuses of OSCE personnel as the responsibility of all of us.  In this 
regard,

some seem to have accepted the charge of double standards that have been made

against ODHIR.  This is a red herring.  There's only one standard for democratic

elections based on the criteria set out in the OSCE commitments stipulated in 
the

1990 Copenhagen document and the 1991 Moscow document and reaffirmed in the 
charter

for European security adopted at the Istanbul summit.  The fact that one member 
can

always claim that someone else is worse than they are, if accepted, would be a 
race

for the anti-democratic bottom. 


To me, one of perhaps the most disturbing developments in the past year was

the July declaration signed by nine members of the commonwealth of independent

states.  It seems to call into question the right of OSCE to raise human rights

issues.  And in rhetoric reminiscent of not only the Soviet Union, but other

dictatorships such as Pinochet's Chile and the generals in Argentina, deems

discussion of human rights to be a breach of principles of non-interference in 
the

internal affairs and respect for sovereignty of states


This reversion to pre-Helsinki Final Act paths cannot be allowed to stand. 

In 1991, OSCE participating states agreed in the document on Moscow meeting 
that the

participating states emphasized that issues relating to human rights, 
fundamental

freedoms, democracy and the rule of law are of international concern as respect 
for

these rights and freedom constitutes one and the same foundations of the

international order


We had it right then.  We must not allow a return to pre-Helsinki version of

the world now in which self-determination and non-intervention were perverted 
into a

shield behind which dictators at the right and the left had the freedom to 
deprive

their own peoples of freedom without fear of criticism from the rest of the 
world. 

In his memoirs, former Secretary of State Schultz said, "We had insisted that we

would not settle simply for words on human rights.  We insisted on deeds."  On 
its

30th anniversary, we must insist that the promises of human rights for all 
citizens

embodied in the Helsinki Final Act and subsequent commitments of the OSCE are 
echoed

in deed throughout the OSCE region


Thank you, Mr. Chairman


SMITH:  Mr. Ambassador, thank you very much for your testimony


And just to lead with your last point, one of your last points, first, I'm

very grateful for your strong statement on the statement made by the nine

presidents.  And I would just point out that we did a response to that as well. 
 And

without objection, a very fine bit of writing by Elizabeth Pryor will be made a 
part

of the record, which goes through the Moscow document, which clearly refuted the

idea that somehow internal affairs could be used as a pretext


I mean, we've heard that of not being criticized for human rights abuses.  I

mean, that's the same old, tired out, worn out line that we've heard from PRC,

Vietnam, North Korea, South Africa during apartheid years and, of course, the 
Soviet

Union.  So we've made a very strong and use the word again, robust response to 
the

nine presidents.  It does raise some very serious problems


Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, the Russian Federation,

Tajikistan, Ukraine and Uzbekistan all signed it.  And we know that the 
Kazakhstan

wants to be the chair in office for the year 2009


And perhaps Ambassador Jones or you might want to respond.  Because I

thought that was, you know -- where would they take the OSCE.  And that 
decision, as

you know, needs to be made in the year 2006.  So if that's the direction, we 
need to

put a tourniquet on that kind of thinking because I think it's very, very 
injurious

to any human rights discussion


I would also want to raise the issue of trafficking.  And I want to publicly

and very strongly commend the president for his leadership on human 
trafficking.  As

you know, I was the prime sponsor of the Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 
2000

and the reauthorization of 2003 signed by President Bush, the other signed by

President Clinton.  And Steve Rademaker will remember that we had unbelievable 
push

back on the naming of names, the non-humanitarian aid sanctions. 


Humanitarian aid obviously should flow in an unfettered way to any country

because we care about those who are distressed and disenfranchised and hurting. 
 But

certainly military aid and other kinds of aids ought to be used as sticks for

countries that refuse to respect their own people, especially the women who are

being trafficked


And I would point out that the naming of names has worked, I think, has

proven that smart sanctions work.  When you get good friends like Turkey, 
Greece,

Russia, Israel, South Korea, all being designated as tier three countries and 
then

getting off the list because of their actions to crack down.  Serbia and 
Montenegro

are on that as well and raided brothels, closed them, began prosecuting the

traffickers and protecting the victims.  It proves that when we put our money 
where

our mouth is, we can get real results


I would point out that Bangladesh even now is doing -- has avoided

sanctions, unlike Venezuela and Cuba and others who are on tier three because 
they

stepped up to the plate and began a very serious and hopefully sustained effort 
to

stop trafficking within their environs.  So I want to thank the president for 
doing

so


I raise this especially because, as Steve Rademaker mentioned a moment ago,

you know, we used our chairmanship very effectively when it came to arms 
control and

security issues.  We will be chairing the Security Council at the U.N. -- and

Secretary Jones, you might want to speak to this -- in just a couple of months. 
 My

hope is especially given the president's very strong statements last year at the

U.N. on trafficking that we will use that chairmanship to really take the human

trafficking issue and put that center stage again as we chair that to show that 
we

mean business


We're doing it, you're doing it.  I would also point out and I would hope

that all the countries of the world would take note, we're attacking it within 
our

own country as well.  The rescue and restore efforts being rolled out by the 
Justice

Department, Health and Human Services, the State Department, everyone working 
with

the local government, state and local law enforcement is working very well


The Tampa speech as well as that meeting -- I was at the Newark, New Jersey

rollout, and I just have nothing but accolades and praise for the very serious 
and

often under-heralded efforts by the president with regards to trafficking.  
Please

use that security council chairmanship to take that issue and just get it right

smack dab in front of everybody again and say, "We mean business.


On anti-Semitism, if I could, the thoughts about Cordoba, whether or not we

are pushing for a follow-up there to the Berlin conference.  And also, if you 
would,

the idea that has been pushed, that I think is a good idea, of having a more

regularized mechanism for the chair in office, a special envoy or some other 
office

to monitor anti-Semitism


And then finally -- and then I will go to my colleagues, but I have a number

of questions.  The 9/11 Commission and the some 30-odd hearings that were held 
-- I

chaired two of them myself for the International Relations Committee and for the

Veterans Affairs -- it became very clear.  One issue that you might want to 
speak to


The 9/11 Commission said that travel documents are like weapons for the

terrorists.  A very good and I think profound statement made by that 
commission.  In

looking over the conventions of the U.N., it's very clear that there are some 12

conventions that deal with terrorism, the money laundering and then the 
financing

one of 1999, I think, being the most recent.  None of them speak to travel 
documents


And I know that the department is working on biometrics and a lot of other

very important initiatives.  But it seems to me U.N. Security Council 
resolutions

don't have the weight that a convention might have.  And it's something we might

think about.  You might want to touch on it


And again, one thing that all of us are concerned about, and that is the

whole issue of -- and the commission, the 9/11 Commission, spoke to this -- a 
more

robust work within the Middle East in terms of public diplomacy.  The OSCE might

offer the model.  We have Mediterranean partners.  Six members of the Middle 
East

are a part of that, including Israel, Jordan, Egypt.  What could be done, in 
your

view, to expand OSCE principles?  Don't rewrite them.  Take those and say, 
"Here's

something we need to invite you to become more of a part of.


All of us, Alcee, all of us that are on the commission care -- and Ben

Cardin -- deeply about this.  We even had a hearing with Sharansky and many 
others,

as you know, on June 15th to explore this as a way of trying to get them to be 
--

you know, get the good infection (ph) about democracy and human rights 
observance


JONES:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Let me go first to your first question

about Kazakhstan and its desire to -- its proposal that it be accepted as the

chairman in office and what that means in terms of their having signed this CIS

statement.  As Secretary Mike Kozak said, we have serious problems with the CIS

statement.  There is no double standard in the OSCE.  There is no double 
standard in

ODHIR


Each of the countries who signed this document signed up to adhere to the

principles of the OSCE when they first joined the organization.  And Mike read 
out

what that means.  We have since then, not least because of the very strong

statements and communications from the commission itself to each of these

governments, but we have separately on a bilateral basis had conversations with 
each

of these governments about what does this mean


I look forward to pursuing these questions with colleagues of those

countries when I meet with them, several of us, meet with them next week in New 
York

where we'll have a lot of meetings on the margins of the general assembly during

leaders week


In terms of Kazakhstan's desire to be selected for chairman in office in

2009, we've been very forthright in telling the president Nazarbayev and his

colleagues that one of the principle criteria is adhering to all of the OSCE

principles.  As Mike said, Kazakhstan has done a very good job of getting back 
on

track in assuring that it does adhere to these principles in some of the actions

that it's taken over the past year, getting very close to OSCE principles and 
OSCE

requirements


There's still a bit to go.  And, as I say, we look forward to those kinds of

conversations next week to push forward on exactly the kinds of things that we 
think

are necessary.  We have a very, very robust conversation with the Kazakhstanis, 
both

bilaterally in terms of Washington, but also our embassy in Almaty is very 
active on

the subject, as is Ambassador Minikes


On trafficking in persons, the OSCE itself, thanks to the leadership of the

Dutch chairmanship in office last year, put forward a proposal that the OSCE 
itself

have a trafficking in persons mandate.  They have done that.  There is a person 
now

assigned, appointed to lead this effort within the OSCE.  It's an extremely 
good way

to press and encourage OSCE member states to assure that they have the right 
kind of

legislation, that they have their programs, that we share best practices and 
how to

address each of the areas that are so important to us in pursuing trafficking in

persons


In terms of your recommendation of using our security council chairmanship

to pursue trafficking, I will certainly discuss this with my colleagues in the

international organizations bureau and with, of course, Ambassador Danforth as 
well

as Secretary Powell to see how that might best be done


I addressed in my statement, as you will see in my formal written statement,

the issue of U.S. support for the Cordoba conference that Spain has proposed.  
We

look forward to using that as an expert level discussion to assure follow-up to 
the

extremely good recommendations that have been made and proposals that have been 
put

forward by the anti-Semitism conference. 


We do support naming a special representative, provided this is resources

neutral.  We think a special representative can be very aggressive without a 
lot of

administrative underpinning, shall we say, in making sure that governments

understand what it is that they've agreed to, understand what's been put 
forward and

to provide the kind of support that's necessary to make sure that legislation,

training, education on these issues is pursued in the way that it should


On travel documents and the security of travel documents, this is a very

strong element in the OSCE's efforts in the FSC.  It's also an issue that's 
under

very detailed, very detailed conversation between the United States and the 
European

Union, for example, through home and justice affairs.  There are conversations

underway right now between us and Russia on a bilateral basis on how to assure

greater security of travel documents, airline security, those kinds of issues. 


The biometrics issue was one that is of significant importance to Secretary

Ridge, that he is pursuing personally in a very aggressive way.  And I'm very

grateful for your mentioning of it in this context.  It gives us a greater umph 
to

push this forward because it is something that we would like to make sure that 
all

member states of the OSCE take as seriously as the rest of do


On the OSCE and how it can be used in the Middle East, you mentioned very

rightly that there are conversations with the Mediterranean dialogue (ph) their 
way

to expand these principles.  That's actually exactly the theory, the principles

behind the president's recommendation to his G-8 colleagues, the kinds of 
proposals

that we've made in the U.S./E.U. context, the kinds of proposals we've made to

NATO.  That's why in the three summits that we had this year in June the G-8 
adopted

the broader Middle East and North Africa initiative.  Those are the principles 
that

we have borrowed or used from the OSCE to put forward as suggestions to the 
broader

Middle East and North Africa countries as ideas that they can use to develop a

stronger civil society, they can use to work with in democratic reforms and 
human

rights reforms.  That's exactly the idea without expanding the organization 
itself


There is a considerable discussion underway now as to how to operationalize

it, if I can put it that way, the kinds of -- these principles.  There will be a

planning meeting of the forum for the future at the general assembly that 
Secretary

Powell will participate in with his colleagues.  There's a lot of work underway 
to

try to use these kinds of principles to pursue democracy, human rights, civil

society in the broader Middle East and North Africa


So I thank you for your appreciation of the importance of this issue.  Thank

you


SMITH:  (OFF-MIKE


CARDIN:  Let me yield first to Mr. Hastings.  I think he has a time problem


HASTINGS:  Thank you.  I have a meeting with the vice president of foreign

affairs committee of Austria and need to rush away.  I'm sorry I'm not going to 
get

to get with you, Jerry.  Thanks so much


Mr. Chairman, I'm appreciative of all of the testimony that the witnesses

have presented to us here this morning in very concise fashion.  And I'll try 
to be

likewise.  And I appreciate you holding this meeting


I also just will take a personal liberty in a friend of mine and a friend of

this organization who used to be a high staffer in the Parliamentary Assembly's

staff in Copenhagen, has now moved to America.  And I see his interest 
continues. 

But Eric Rudenshal (ph), who is a resource for us, has an extensive amount of

understanding of the OSCE process.  And I just take note of the fact that he's 
in

the audience


Ms. Secretary, thank you so very much for all of your assertions.  I agree

with the chairman in all of his assessments and your responses to them.  I'm 
deeply

appreciative.  I certainly am very, very mindful of the need for transformation 
of

the OSCE.  Last Wednesday, I had a very good meeting with Secretary Powell in

discussing a lot of the issues.  And please convey to him my strong 
appreciation for

the statement regarding Gulf War.  We talked about that briefly unrelated to 
OSCE

activities


Also, the shaping up of the election observer mission of OSCE -- we had very

brief discussions regarding that.  And I explained to the secretary my view as 
the

president of the Parliamentary Assembly.  First, I wanted to make him fully 
aware of

the fact that as the president and as a political functionary in my other

responsibility that I have requested Chairman Passy to designate another person 
whom

he has designated to lead the Parliamentary Assembly's observer mission.  And 
that's

Barbara Haering from Switzerland


And at my request, Chairman Passy did make that appointment.  I say all of

that because we come to today and appreciating very much our state having 
fulfilled

the U.S. obligation to invite election observers from the OSCE.  I do need to 
have

some assurances that the State Department is going to follow its practices 
regarding

visa fees and visas and grant them in an expeditious manner for OSCE

parliamentarians and their staffs.  I think in all other election observations 
by

the OSCE, that has been the case.  And I don't need a response from you, but I 
do

need to put it on your radar screen because it's something that's critical


Right now, I need, for example, for Ms. Haering to be expedited to get here

to do the assessment for the Parliamentary Assembly.  Which brings me to my next

observation.  With my colleagues, the chairman of this commission and my 
colleagues,

the treasurer of the Parliamentary Assembly from Canada here and chairman of the

important committee of the OSCE which I now am privileged to be president of, 
Mr.

Cardin, I'm sure they all will take note of my parochial interest, not me as a

congressperson, but as a Parliamentary Assembly member in asserting very 
strongly

the role that the Parliamentary Assembly plays in election observation


When I read your printed remarks, I note the absence and the highlighting of

ODHIR's responsibility, which I do not minimize by any stretch of the 
imagination. 

I consider it extremely important.  But as one, along with Jerry, for example, 
we

were in Russia and we observed the Russian election.  ODHIR was there.  But the

Parliamentary Assembly was there in a rather substantial kind and led by then

President Bruce George.  We, too, had exacting responsibilities


Well, when it comes to America and the shaping of the kind of observer

mission, if you take the political tensions off the table, it seems to me only

fairness or fairness dictates to us that this is an opportunity -- and this is 
what

I said to Secretary Powell -- take Hastings out of the picture. 


This is an opportunity, number one, for an extraordinary bipartisan effort

to assure and ensure that those observers see the full panoply, not one person's

side or the other person's side or ideologically, but that they do what they 
can do

best.  That's important, in my judgment.  And I will be speaking with Speaker

Hastert specifically to make sure that we do everything for any briefers, 
either by

ODHIR or the P.A. or combined that they are totally bipartisan without any 
hesitancy

whatsoever


Now, I'm just back from Belgium yesterday where I attended the racism and

xenophobia conference, which I think went extremely well.  I had the good 
fortune of

meeting Ben's friend, Cardinal Keeler and countless others that were there from

America.  Secretary Jackson, who led the delegation at the insistence of 
President

Bush, and I had a number of meetings.  But more important to the issue at hand, 
I

met with Chairman Passy.  I met with Jan Kubis, the secretary general, there in

Vienna.  I met with Ambassador Minikes.  And all of us in full agreement that 
the

observer mission should be robust


I also met with Christian Strohal from ODHIR.  I gather from mine and

Christian's meetings and the manner in which the run-up to whatever election

observation is going to take place that Christian has a different view.  I hope 
that

you can help me and Secretary Powell can help me in having him dispel the notion

that observing an election in America is any different than observing an 
election in

Russia


I think America's credibility stands to be enhanced immensely.  I think the

OSCE's credibility in election observation will be enhanced immensely.  In 
addition

to appointing Barbara Haering, Chairman Passy also appointed Igor Oshtash from 
the

Ukraine, interestingly, on my behalf, to observe the elections in Kazakhstan 
that

are impending and others as well for Belarus.  And we know that these things are

taking place


This country's elections are important.  Every person, every foreign

minister, all the functionaries that I talked to in Belgium over the last four 
days

were interested in the American elections.  Contrary to some, not for the 
purpose of

coming here to run any election -- Jerry and I didn't run any election in 
Russia. 

We didn't receive interference or cause interference.  The speaker at that time 
of

the duma briefed us as well as other functionaries.  And I, quite frankly, am 
at a

loss to understand why existing political tensions, which are natural in an 
election

year, would cause us to minimize the kind of observation


Now, I know that Secretary Powell doesn't control that, nor do you, nor do

I.  But the fact of the matter is that where our good offices can be 
influential in

allowing for America's credibility to be enhanced, I see that as my 
responsibility. 

And I'm very protective of the role that we play in the Parliamentary Assembly. 
 And

I would assert to you that in election observation, ODHIR has a lot to learn 
from

what we do.  And what I said to Strohal was, "Tell me what election you got 
elected

to."  And he understood me very well


Parliamentarians are accustomed to being elected.  And whether they are from

Kazakhstan or other places, fairness only dictates that we balance our 
observation. 

And I would like your reaction to my much too lengthy statement


JONES:  Thank you very much for raising this question.  Let me just address

right away we will do our very best on the visa question to work to make sure 
that

people get their visas at the appropriate moment.  We'll want to work with you 
to

make sure we know who they are in enough advance so that we can do that


In terms of ODHIR and the importance of their Parliamentary Assembly being

election observers, let me first say that I am very apologetic that I did not

include that in my formal statement.  I should have.  We certainly recognize the

importance of the members of the Parliamentary Assembly being observers, 
because,

just as you say, you have personal experience with how this is meant to work.


I might also say that the issue of the United States inviting ODHIR,

inviting the OSCE to provide observers in U.S. elections is an invitation that 
we

have extended through several American elections now for the past four, five 
times. 

It's something that we believe is part of our membership obligations in the 
OSCE. 

We certainly signed up to this.  This is something that we expect each and every

other member to offer.  And we are very, in fact, very proud to show election

observers from wherever they may come how it is that we do assure a free, fair,

transparent election in the United States of America


In addition, there are technological improvements that we've made that are

of great interest to other countries who are looking at doing the same kinds of

things and they would like to learn from the experience of the United States and

various of our states as to what the lessons learned are from technological

advancements.  And we will be very interested in showing the election observers 
that

will be coming how this works.  But I completely agree with you, Congressman

Hastings.  This is something that we are proud of.  It enhances the credibility 
of

the United States.  It enhances the credibility of the OSCE for us to 
participate as

forthrightly and as proudly as we should


HASTINGS:  Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman


CARDIN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 


Secretary Kozak, I want to follow-up on your comments about the concerns

about how we have treated, allegations made of how we have treated unlawful

combatants, the problems in Iraq, which we have acknowledged.  I very much

appreciate your comments about the importance at the human dimension meeting in

Warsaw to have a side event initiated by the United States.  I think that's an

excellent strategy, and I commend you for that


And I also thank you for your commitment to keep us appraised as

investigations continue.  I assume that includes the commission, when you 
mention

the OSCE, that you'll keep our commission advised as to how the investigations 
are

going and what they discover


I want to raise Guantanamo Bay for a moment, if I might.  We were charged at

a meeting of the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly by our colleagues challenging the

manner in which we were treating the detainees in Guantanamo Bay.  As a result 
of

that, Chairman Smith and myself visited Guantanamo Bay, had a chance to see

firsthand the manner in which we were treating the detainees there.  We issued a

report to the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly.  And we emphasized the point that 
it's

U.S. policy that we will not use torture.  And it was verified by the State

Department and by the administration that torture was not used


Just recently, there was a press account -- and I want to stress a press

account -- by three British subjects who were at Guantanamo Bay that they, in 
fact,

were tortured and pretty specific as to the type of conduct that they were 
subjected

to at Guantanamo Bay.  And they also indicated in their report that other 
detainees

were subject to similar types of methods that would be considered torture


My question to you is whether we've heard from the British government

concerning these concerns.  And secondly, regardless of whether we've heard 
from the

British government or not, has there been any follow-up to investigate these 
charges

to see whether there was any truth in the allegations that were made by these

subjects


KOZAK:  Well, first let me hit the last part of your question, Mr. Cardin. 

Let me qualify this by saying I don't think any of us are involved with the

detention policy, and so, our knowledge is very limited.  I get at more from the

side that we -- the same way you do.  Other governments are asking us about it 
and

comparing what we're asking them to do with what we ask for ourselves


I do not know whether the British government has raised this with us.  We

will check and get you an answer on that point.  I do know that the British

government as well as the governments, I think, of every other nationality of

persons detained at Guantanamo have had access to their nationals there as 
well, of

course, as the Red Cross has. 


And obviously there are a lot of motives for making allegations and so on. 

But the statement about torture, I think, clearly is policy.  We went through 
some

effort in the statement that was made on victim torture day that the president 
put

out.  And I think the effort there was to be as crystal clear as anyone can be 
that

we do know what torture means.  There isn't some new definition of it and that

that's what's prohibited


Now, obviously you get into fine points of, you know, if somebody has to

stand for an hour in the sun in the line is that a torture or not


CARDIN:  You're absolutely correct.  I agree with your answer.  And the

nuances here are going to be difficult for us to evaluate.  The charges made by 
the

press account was very direct torture well beyond just deprivation of sleep. 

Although deprivation of sleep was one of the allegations.  It went to physical

abuse.  It went to other types of torture


And I guess my concern is I hope that we take these allegations seriously

and find out whether, in fact, there's any truth to these.  The way that we 
handled

the problems in Iraq by confronting them directly, to me, is the only way that 
we

can handle these types of allegations


KOZAK:  I absolutely agree with you on that, sir.  And one of the things

I've been rather proud of, we had a similar spate of things coming out of the 
U.N.

Commission on Human Rights, a little bit apart from this committee's 
jurisdiction,

but still, the substance of it is exactly the same.  And they did a report on 
Iraq

that was -- they had the high commissioner for human rights or the acting high

commissioner charge this.  And we got a ton of questions, requests for 
information. 

Then we got a draft report and were asked to give comments on it in 24 hours. 


An interesting process in that what I saw, even people who have worked in

this area for years pushing other people to be forthcoming.  And we're saying, 
"How

can they say that?  This isn't true.  That's not true."  And I said, "Look, the

issue is not whether it's true or not.  The issue is how we react to is.  And 
if we

just go back and say you can't ask me this because it's not true, that's 
exactly the

kind of response we don't want to get from other people." 


What we want to do here is set an example.  And I think we did.  We went

back on each case in that report where there were allegations of abuse beyond 
the

ones we knew about already and said, "Please give us specifics so that we can 
look

at this.  It's not enough to tell us that somebody alleges that American 
soldiers

shot up a car full of innocent people at a checkpoint.  Where did this happen, 
when

did it happen so that we can go follow it up?


It turned out in all but one case that they mentioned they didn't have that

kind of information.  And in the other case, we are following it up and trying 
to

investigate and get more information where there was enough to identify a 
particular

individual and particular time and place of the alleged abuse.  So it's a 
process,

as you mentioned. 


But I think our goal in this -- first, our policy on torture is absolutely

clear.  And certainly physical torture is prohibited.  If somebody's doing it, 
we

want to know about it.  We want to investigate it.  We want to follow-up.  If

someone wants to ask us about it, we're going to go back and ask for the 
particulars

that allow us to take action on it.  And I think that's the only way we can be 
and

maintain our credibility


CARDIN:  I appreciate that.  And I support that policy.  And I hope that you

will check to make sure that we followed up in regards to these allegations in

regards to Guantanamo Bay


KOZAK:  I will


CARDIN:  Let me follow-up on the chairman's point about the 9/11 Commission

report, which I thought is right on target.  I believe we've had a lot of 
discussion

here, a lot of hearings taking place.  And I expect Congress will take some 
action

before we adjourn this year to implement some of the recommendations of the 9/11

Commission report, particularly as it relates to the national intelligence 
director


But a significant part of this report deals with we need to win not only the

act of war against terrorists and we have to be strong militarily in that 
regard, we

also have to win the war of ideas.  And that was perhaps the strongest weapon 
we had

during the Cold War.  Our values won out.  And the people of East Berlin saw 
what

was happening in West Berlin, and the Iron Curtain literally fell down, the 
Berlin

Wall collapsed.  We won the war of ideas


And we need to do the same thing in the Middle East.  And that is why all of

us are so passionate about this process that started in 1975 that no one really

expected to be how it is today.  But it sort of developed into a very important,

effective tool for the battle of ideas.  So I would just encourage the State

Department to be more aggressive in trying to get more players in the Middle 
East

particularly to be engaged in the Helsinki process, whether within OSCE or 
similar

types of organizations.  I think it's probably best within OSCE, because to try 
to

reinvent it would probably take too long, but to expand it


As you know, we have the initiative -- and Senator Grafstein's been one of

the leaders on it -- to expand the OSCE with our Mediterranean partners and to 
have

higher expectations and greater participation.  And I think the rewards could be

great, including listening to the 9/11 Commission report and its recommendations


And I know the administration is doing this. And I just want you to know

that this is one of our highest priorities. And anything that we can do on the

commission to assist in this effort and within the Parliamentary Assembly we 
will do


The last issue I want to raise deals with the economic issues, if I might. 

And that is I mentioned in my opening statement that there's been in the last 12

months a lot of the tension spent within OSCE on the economic dimension 
starting in

Maastricht, including the work of the Parliamentary Assembly.  And probably the

highest priority is to try to deal with corruption.  Corruption, like your

observations -- at least it's our observations that it's still widespread,

particularly in the emerging states and that it's a real impediment to the

development of all three of our concerns, all three of our areas of concern


So that the Maastricht document talked about developing strategies to fight

corruption.  We specifically in Edinburgh passed a resolution calling for the 
high

level meeting to develop a strategy to fight corruption.  And I would just like 
your

observations as to whether you believe this is a very high priority or just 
maybe

not as high a priority.  And if it is a high priority, what steps are we taking 
to

develop a strategy or a position?  And do we support a high level meeting of

ministers in order to advance this issue


JONES:  The issue of fighting corruption is a very big issue for the United

States.  It's one where, including especially in the countries of the OSCE, 
which I

know the most about, we believe it's really a key to success.  You can't have

prosperity, you can't have democracy, you can't have a rule of law if 
corruption is

a big issue in any of these countries. 


It's something that I know the E.U. was particularly concerned about and

really focused on as it worked with the 10 new members of the European Union to 
get

them ready for European Union membership.  And it's an area in which the E.U. 
keeps

working on with the countries that are coming down the pike in getting ready for

close association with the European Union


It's also an issue that is worked on in detail by the OECD.  The reason I

mention that is that we want to be sure that what the OSCE does is 
complimentary to

the work that's already going on with the E.U. and with the OECD on counter

corruption, anti-corruption measures


That said, we have some very good programs, bilaterally and through the OSCE

to try to address the particular issues that are related to corruption.  And 
what

we're working on with the OSCE is, again, to develop the institutions that are

strong enough to counter corruption and sort of close down the loopholes, close 
down

the opportunities for corrupt officials to be able to take advantage of

institutions, to develop legislation that makes it harder for corrupt officials 
or

corrupt people to work in countries and take advantage of situations, to make 
sure

that the legal systems will support a transparent free market economy, which is,

after all, the goal of the countries of the OSCE and of the United States itself


I can't speak to the question of whether a high level meeting will happen. 

It's something that's under discussion.  And I would like to offer to get back 
to

you on how that conversation is developing within the OSCE, if I might


CARDIN:  Thank you


Thank you, Mr. Chairman


SMITH:  Commissioner Pitts


PITTS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  And thank you for holding this important

and timely hearing.  As our nation engages in the war against terror, it is 
vital

that we build and strengthen relationships we have with friends and allies 
around

the world


I would like to submit my opening statement for the record


SMITH:  Without objection, so ordered


PITTS:  And I have three questions for the panel.  And any of you can

respond.  It often seems that the OSCE takes a back seat to NATO when U.S. 
policy

toward Europe is considered while, for their part, E.U. countries concentrate 
their

own attention mainly on the countries preparing to join the E.U.  The first 
question

is what can be done to empower and reinvigorate the OSCE.  How much might the 
E.U.

be prepared to help us do that?  And do you see Russia as a potential partner or

obstacle in that endeavor


Secondly, I'd like to ask about the work of the coordinator on economic

environmental activities, the high commissioner on national minorities, the

representative on freedom of the media.  Their activities are usually conducted 
in a

quiet and behind the scenes manner.  My question is how do you keep track of 
their

activities.  Are you satisfied that these positions have justified their 
existence

through particular accomplishments?  And if not, now would you reform them so 
that

they need to be -- that they would be improved?  Or should they be eliminated

altogether


My third question has to do with terrorist financing.  The OECD's financial

action task force, the OSCE's Bucharest action plan and action against terrorism

unit have provided technical assistance to assist law enforcement and regulatory

authorities in terrorist financing investigations.  How effective are these

multilateral efforts, including the UNSCR and the U.N. counterterrorism 
committee to

develop common standards and jointly free financial assets of terrorists?  How 
can

they be made more effective, for instance, in addressing key outstanding issues 
such

as how they raise money, from whom and how they spend the money


So if we can start with the OSCE and NATO question, I'd appreciate it


JONES:  I would put it this way, the OSCE and NATO are very different

organizations.  NATO certainly is an organization of like-minded countries, but 
it

has a military operational focus.  The OSCE because it has the three dimensions 
has

a broader focus.  And we find it an organization that is very flexible.  It's 
very

easy to move quickly with the OSCE


I use Macedonia as a very good example three years ago when we suddenly

needed to have observers to make sure that the agreements that were reached at 
Ohrid

could be implemented properly.  It was the OSCE that was able to put forward 
those

observers within days.  And it was something that really helped the security

situation in Macedonia


The European Union in addition, of course, has focused on the programs,

legislation development, et cetera, that was necessary to make it possible for 
these

10 new countries to join, to be invited to join the European Union as happened

earlier this year.  But I would argue there are very many of the developments, 
very

many of the improvements that the E.U. pressed on these countries that are very 
much

in line with the improvements that all of us wanted.  In fact, we take great 
credit,

we're very proud of the collaboration that we undertook with the E.U. in very 
many

of these areas to make sure that we were all focused in the same direction on

fighting corruption, on border security, on rule of law issues, on developing

democracy, on making sure that there could be vetting for security officials and

that kind of thing


The European Union, now that it has enlarged, is even more interested in its

new borders, in the countries around its new borders so is taking an even more

active role in the OSCE as an organization -- of course, the member states do 
in any

case -- in working with the OSCE, with us in the OSCE to address some of the 
pros

and conflicts to the instability kinds of issues that we think are very, very

important to address. 


Whether it be Moldova Transnistria where we have -- I'd like to really

commend the leadership of the head of mission there, Ambassador Bill Hill, for

really pushing the initiatives, coming up with ideas for how to address the

outstanding issues related to the frozen conflict there between Transnistria and

Moldova.  The same thing I would like to commend in terms of greater E.U.

participation, interest, activism in looking at how to assure a resolution of 
the

issues in Georgia involving both South Ossetia and Abkhazia.  Nagorno-Karabakh 
we

already have a very good participation by a European Union member state, by 
France,

as a co-chair with the United States and Russia in trying to push for 
improvements

there


I really look at these three organizations as being very complimentary to

each other.  There is a way that each of them can work together.  There's a 
niche

for each of them.  And we constantly are looking for ways to increase the 
ability of

all of us to do the work that we think is necessary by taking advantage of the 
best

parts of each of these organizations to achieve U.S. goals and the goals that we

have set together with the European Union, with NATO, with OECD and, frankly, 
also

with the Council of Europe


On the national minorities question that you asked and the free media, we

really appreciate the very hard work that the representatives for each of these

special focuses undertake.  We stay in very close touch with them.  They come

regularly to Washington to talk with us.  They are constantly in conversation 
with

Ambassador Minikes in Vienna. 


They report back to the perm representatives.  And they stay in touch with

our embassies, with the U.S. embassies, as they travel in each of the countries

where they have particular issues that they're working on to pursue.  So I use 
every

opportunity myself to stay in touch with them and to see them at the margins of 
the

general assembly or at OSCE meetings when they come to Washington.  So I really 
have

a great respect for the ability of these extremely capable people to do the 
kind of

work that they are meant to do and to do it in a way that achieves the 
objective and

gets the changes and behavior that we're looking for. 


On terrorist financing, we think that the FDS (ph) is a very productive

organization.  The work in the U.N. Security Council in the U.N. to pursue 
terrorist

financing are all ways that we work to look at ways and to designate 
organizations,

to designate people whom the international community should assure can no longer

provide financing to terrorists.  There are people who know a lot more about 
exactly

how they all work than I do, but it is -- those are mechanisms that we use very,

very regularly and that the member states use very, very regularly


Countries from all over the world, governments from all over the world are

constantly bringing forward names of people, names of organizations that they'd 
have

considered by the U.N., by us on a bilateral basis to assure that terrorist

financing cannot continue and that the international community takes as tough a

measure as they possibly can to make sure that these organizations, that these

people cannot continue to use international banking services to support 
terrorist

organizations or terrorist events


PITTS:  Thank you


Anyone else have anything to add


Secretary Kozak


KOZAK:  I'd just say on the media freedom representative and the way they

work, I had a chance to watch this firsthand in Belarus.  And it's true that 
when

they have a government that's being cooperative that they tend to do it behind 
the

scenes and low key for obvious reasons.  They get to hear our suggestions on 
your

media law.  The government goes and takes the measures, and then the government

takes credit itself for doing the right thing


But in places like Belarus where they got nothing but grief from the regime

in power for a long time with the predecessor represented in Mr. Duve, the

government said he could visit but he couldn't bring his assistant who was an

American who observed previously at our embassy there.  Now I see with Mr. Hardy

(ph) they've changed the pretext, but the result is the same. 


But in those cases, as Beth was saying, they got information from us, they

got information from other member state embassies and then they published 
reports

and denounced what was going on in a very public way.  So they are able to play 
it

both, sort of, the behind the scenes, private incremental improvement track or 
if

that's not working, public pressure.  And I think they made a pretty good job 
of it


PITTS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman


SMITH:  Thank you very much


Senator Grafstein


GRAFSTEIN:  Well, I'm really privileged to ask our friendly neighbor, the

United States and their key people at the State Department some questions about 
an

interest of mine which I share with all of the parliamentarians on this side, 
the

goals and the objectives and the processes of the Helsinki Accord.  And we agree

with everything you've said, certainly I do, with respect to its importance and 
its

growing importance.  I only give you just one current example


Because of leadership of Representative Smith and Cardin and Alcee Hastings

and others, anti-Semitism became an issue and was really, in effect, by the

Parliamentary Assembly.  And I was delighted when Secretary General Kofi Annan 
when

there was tremendous infighting about having a conference focused purely on anti

Semitism took our resolution, which we worked so hard on, and used that.  And he

gave us credit for that.  So sometimes a junior organization like the OSCE can

impact the major organization


I just want to make two comments and bring your attention to some activities

that I think we're doing that help you in your work.  From my observation -- and

I've noted it again in the questions this morning -- the work of the 
parliamentary

dimension, the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly, is sometimes neglected by our 
various

ministries.  The two examples that you give, the Georgian election monitoring

example, that was led by Bruce George, the president of the OSCE.  And I was the

deputy on both of those missions. 


And quite frankly, I think we led those missions.  The ODHIR was there. 

They were very supportive.  They were excellent.  But quite frankly, I think 
that

parliamentarians have a lot more experience in connection with elections and 
what's

important and what's not important in order to instigate the parliamentary 
process


And again, when you mentioned Ambassador Hill, he's done a fabulous job. 

But I'm also -- and Kiljunen of Finland -- leads the parliamentary side of the

Moldova Transnistria problem. And I happen to be on that as well, so I can speak

from firsthand experience that there the leadership of Mr. Kiljunen has been

outstanding.  And I would just hope that when you take a look at the 
information you

garner from your minister, from your diplomats, you would take into account the 
fact

that the OSCE has two dimensions. 


There's the ministerial side, and there's also the parliamentary side.  And

we've been working very hard, as Chris will tell you and as Ben will tell you, 
to

make sure that the two institutions, one in Vienna and ours at Copenhagen, work

together.  We now, in effect, have an ambassador there.  We now have a full-time

ambassador and officer, Ambassador Nothelle, precisely to make sure that the two

arms of the OSCE work in harmony together.  We have the same objectives.  Our

processes are different.  That's a comment. 


Secondly, on corruption, again, parliamentarians have taken a huge lead in

examining and focusing on parliamentary corruption, which is a huge part of the

overall problem.  And I must say that progress has been made, remarkable 
progress

has been made with the organization called GOPAC.  It was started in Ottawa 
several

years ago, the chairmen of it, worldwide.  It's the Global Organization of

Parliamentarians Against Corruption.  The head of that is John Williams, M.P., 
from

Canada.  The vice chairman is Roy Cullen.  And we are trying to integrate that

process into the OSCE as well so that we compliment each other.  So I just bring

that to your attention.  It's remarkable work, and it works at the parliamentary

level


My final comment and question -- I only have really one question -- is the

Middle East.  Again, we have been engaged in trying to move forward a Middle 
East

agenda.  And I think we've concluded, many parliamentarians have concluded, 
that the

political track is stuck.  It's very hard to move it for all of the things that 
we

know.  But the economic track, which is the second basket of the OSCE, is open. 


And hence, we've been focused, Representative Cardin and myself have been

focused, on the economic dimension of the Middle East.  And I'm pleased to say 
that

I've just returned from a conference in England where I talked about the OSCE 
as an

instigator of economic reform in the Middle East, Arab Middle East.  And it was 
very

well received. And that paper, I'll send it along to you


So my question is that has the department, has the secretary of state looked

at the question of the economic reforms necessary in the Arab Middle East in 
order

to instigate civil society and democracy.  Now, I've read with great care the 
G-8,

the last G-8, declaration, which I think is good.  I think the president's

leadership on economic assistance and democratic development in that part of the

world, the $150 million, is excellent.  I think it's too little.  But I would 
wonder

whether or not you've got a coherent strategy for following up on the economic

dimension as it applies to the Middle East


And I conclude with this one fact.  The region in the world that suffered

the most as a result of September 11th -- and I call this the auto-da-fe of

September 11th -- was the Arab Middle East.  Their economies are suffering.  And

we're sitting on a time bomb there unless we really address the economic 
problems in

that region of the world.  So it's a question for you.  And we intend to follow 
this

up. 


Ben and I fostered a resolution at the OSCE, was unanimously approved at the

Parliamentary Assembly in Edinburgh.  I've given a paper on that, and we intend 
to

follow that up in Rhodes at the end of this month.  So that's my question.  Are 
you

on sync with us on that?  And how can we help each other to foster that priority


JONES:  Senator, thank you very much for your comments.  I very much

appreciate the participation of the Parliamentary Assembly in the work of the 
OSCE. 

And I should have acknowledged that with greater clarity.  But it is something 
that

we do recognize and very, very much appreciate.  Because, just as you said and 
some

of your other colleagues in the commission said, there's nothing that 
substitutes

for personal experience and knowing what is right, what makes sense, what is

important and what is somewhat less important in an election


GRAFSTEIN:  Just a comment on that, I was here (ph) making that speech here

because I intend to make it in Ottawa next week to my own government.  So 
you're not

alone


JONES:  I'll just make a brief comment on the economic track for the Middle

East reform.  As my colleagues in the Middle East bureau began working to 
develop

some of the ideas on reform in the Middle East, thinking about all the baskets 
that

made the most sense, we took a look, of course, at a U.N. report that really 
focused

on political reform, economic reform and education reform.  So those were the 
three

areas that we also adopted as the areas that we should concentrate on in working

with reformers in the Middle East


My colleagues in the Middle East bureau have done that, have been doing

that.  And the results of some of those conversations is what informed the G-8 
in

putting forward the proposals that came out of the G-8 summit, which, thank you 
very

much for your attention to those


I can't tell you right at this very moment how those will be developed.  My

colleagues in the Middle East bureau are a little bit more focused on some of 
the

details of that.  But as I said earlier, the next step in pursuing some of these

issues, as with the forum for the future event, sort of, pioneering event that 
will

take place in New York -- and then there'll be hopefully a follow on conference 
that

we'll still be working on.  But our Middle East colleagues completely recognize 
that

it takes all three areas in order to make progress, including the economic one


And my colleague, Assistant Secretary Rademaker would like to also offer

some comments on how in another area we are using OSCE mechanisms to work with 
the

Middle East


RADEMAKER:  Thank you.  A number of you have raised this question of the

applicability of the OSCE and its experiences to the Middle East.  And I just 
wanted

to volunteer the comment that the core of the OSCE's approach to security is an

integrated one where human rights and democracy are integrated with increasing

economic freedom and security and confidence building measures.  And this 
approach

was extraordinarily successful over the last 30 years in bringing about the end 
of

the Cold War and the demise of the Soviet Union, the advent of freedom in 
Central

and Eastern Europe


The effort that's now underway through the G-8 with regard to the Middle

East has at its core the same basic idea.  And so, it simply has to be the case 
that

there are lessons that can be learned from the OSCE that are of application in 
the

Middle East.  And I think those of you who have raised this issue are correctly

focused on that possibility.  And you are asking very good questions.  You're 
asking

the right questions


We've seen from our experience in the Western Hemisphere that when the

political environment is ripe for it, there is a desire to look -- there can be 
a

desire to look to the OSCE and its experiences and draw from it.  And that's

precisely what's happened in the security area in the Western Hemisphere over 
the

last few years


We have within the arms control bureau an office that's devoted to promoting

these kinds of confidence and security building measures around the world.  They

were very much involved in the efforts that have taken place over the last few 
years

here in the Western Hemisphere.  They are also active in Asia and in the Middle 
East


And they will continue pursuing this.  I think your comments will inspire us

to redouble our efforts to see what we can draw from -- Senator, your comments 
about

the economic dimension I think are very well taken.  And we'll take a second 
look at

whether we can draw anything from that.  But we do have people that are focused 
on

this, and we will be glad to report back to you at some point in the future on 
how

we're coming


SMITH:  Thank you, Senator Grafstein


I just have a few follow-up questions and final questions. 


Secretary Rademaker, one of the -- and to all of you -- one of the great

leadership initiatives that the Bush administration has undertaken is the 
attempt to

have a zero tolerance policy.  As a matter of fact, President Bush issued a zero

tolerance policy, vis-a-vis, trafficking in our military.  The Trafficking in

Victims Protection Act of '03 actually empowers the Department of State and all 
of

the agencies of government to not only do whatever it can to go after those who 
are

complicit in trafficking, but to take away contracts from contractors, vendors 
with

whom we buy their goods and services if they are complicit in trafficking. 


But does zero tolerance policy which has now been adopted by NATO at U.S.

leadership -- Nicholas Burns has done a marvelous job.  Elizabeth Pryor, who 
used to

work there at that shop, has been working, as well as Maureen Walsh and many on 
our

staff to try to -- you know, the peace makers or peace keepers certainly when 
they

are deployed become a ripe target for the traffickers to bring in women who are 
then

exploited.  And it seems to me that the next step is the U.N., to make sure that

their deployments hopefully have a zero tolerance policy


My question to you, Mr. Rademaker, is the forum for security and cooperation

Vienna perhaps another venue that ought to be utilized to take this message 
that I

don't want to hear this boys will be boys garbage.  These are women who are 
being

exploited.  They're being raped.  And again, the administration has a sterling

record in saying we will not allow this to happen


We have a joint hearing with the Armed Services Committee on September 21st

at which we will look at what the Department of Defense, the Wolfowitz memo, how

it's being implemented.  General LaPorte, our former supreme allied commander 
for

South Korea, has done a magnificent job, as has his staff, in implementing a 
zero

tolerance policy.  Joseph Schmitz, the I.G., has done some very ground-breaking 
work

for the Department of Defense in terms of both Bosnia and South Korea


And my point is every avenue or venue that can be utilized -- and certainly

I think you probably have already thought of this.  But that might be an area, 
you

know, the security cooperation forum in Vienna for doing this as well.  Because

obviously there are some countries like the Ukraine, not part of NATO.  They've 
sent

peace keepers to trouble there is that could be brought into this.  If you could


RADEMAKER:  Well, Mr. Chairman, let me begin by stating the obvious, which

is that you provided outstanding leadership on this question of trafficking.  
You

know and I know that the Congress passes lots of bills and lots of resolutions 
year

in and year out.  And many of them don't make a big difference in the real 
world. 


But the work that you and some of your colleagues did in the area of

trafficking leading up to the enactment of the Trafficking in Victims 
Protection Act

was an example where the action of Congress really has made a difference.  You 
have

changed U.S. foreign policy.  And as a result, I think life is slowly being made

better for a lot of victims of trafficking around the world


With regard to your specific idea of using the forum for security

cooperation to raise awareness and begin talking about ways to address some of 
the

problems that we've seen with peace keepers in places like Bosnia, this is not

something that we have talked about.  But I do think it's a very creative

suggestion.  And so, what I would like to do is take it back, and I will give it

very favorable consideration. 


Because, as I noted in my remarks, the forum for security cooperation is a

valuable tool because it is so flexible.  And I think that very flexibility 
would

enable it to accommodate this issue, which is something that should be a 
priority. 

And we can help make it a priority


SMITH:  I appreciate that very much, Mr. Secretary


JONES:  Could I just add


SMITH:  Yes


JONES:  I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.  I actually brought with me the decision

that was taken at the NATO summit by the leaders on exactly this trafficking

question just to demonstrate the importance that all of NATO attaches to this.  
And

thank you for recognizing the leadership role that Ambassador Nick Burns played 
in

this


I also wanted -- I just did a quick look again.  There are two things that

you mentioned that are specifically addressed in this.  Number one, this 
applies to

partners as well.  So Ukraine would have to adhere to the principles that are

enunciated in this document.  And it also applies to contractors.  This is 
something

in which NATO -- there is a specific sub-paragraph that speaks to NATO 
contractors

and asks them to participate and pursue the anti-trafficking policy that NATO 
has

adopted


In terms of Bosnia itself, if I could just say that the former ambassador to

Moldova played a very aggressive role, Ambassador Pamela Smith, in talking with 
NATO

about this in the first instance and specifically about how this plays out and 
what

kinds of policies might be, at best, most appropriately be taken in Bosnia to 
assure

adherence to these principles.  So let me just assure you that this is something

that's very much on the agenda at NATO.  And we're ramping up at the OSCE as 
well

with a new representative who's been named to pursue this specifically


SMITH:  Thank you very much, Ms. Ambassador.  Let me ask you on the issue of

Kosovo.  You know, many of us were concerned about the spike of violence.  As a

matter of fact, Archbishop Artemdja had visited with many of us and said not 
only

are very important orthodox Christian sites being destroyed, people are being

killed.  And then there was that flare-up of violence.  What is being done to 
ensure

that the minority rights and the return processes are being respected


And just let me ask you a couple of other questions.  Yesterday I was part

of a forum on the upcoming Ukrainian elections. And I know a number of people,

Richard Armitage and others have made their way to the Ukraine to raise concerns

about the lack of free media, that especially the broadcast media has been very

severely censored or biased, I should say.  And, you know, a free and fair 
election

isn't just, as we all know, on the day of the election.  It's everything that 
leads

up to it


And the same goes for Belarus


And, Mr. Ambassador, you might want to speak to this as well.  Where we've

got the parliamentary elections coming up and Lukashenko looking to extend his

ability to stay in office, become another one of those presidents for life.  
We're

trying still to get the Belarus democracy act up on the floor.  It has been

blocked.  I don't know why.  We passed it out of committee several weeks ago.  
And

that would only be of some minor, certainly of no impact, on the immediate 
term. 

But on the intermediate term, it might, in terms of empowering civil society 
and the

like.


But my question is if these elections are adjudicated to be unfair and far

less than OSCE standards and international standards, will there be any 
penalty. 

The concern is that, you know, we issue reports, we make comments.  But at the 
end

of the day, people like Lukashenko just fold their arms and say, "Go ahead, hit 
me. 

You haven't even laid a glove on me.


And I'm concerned, especially again, with the Ukraine, a country, you know,

rich in people and culture and political and geopolitical importance.  This 
election

is probably in the process of being hijacked.  And corruption obviously remains 
a

very real concern there


So if you could touch on those issues, I would appreciate it


JONES:  On Kosovo, all of share your deep concern about what happened on

March 17th.  That was a terrible turn of events.  We are now, however, very

encouraged by the activism, the initiatives that have been undertaken by the new

senior representative for Kosovo that has been appointed by Secretary General 
Kofi

Annan, Mr. Jessen-Petersen.  He will be joined very shortly by, I believe, an

extremely good American deputy, Ambassador Larry Rossin


We have had the international members of groups that work, particularly, to

support the UNMIC efforts to pursue standards and to pursue implementation of

standards in Kosovo, are very encouraged by the great activism of the new UNMIC

secretary general, senior representative, especially in connection with how much

they're pushing, as have we, the rebuilding of the churches and schools and

buildings, houses, et cetera, that were damaged so severely in the March 17th

disturbances


There will be a series of meetings next week in New York among the countries

that are most concerned about Kosovo, most concerned about pushing for progress 
in

Kosovo.  So we look forward to really grinding down through some of these 
issues. 

The most important part of this is to demonstrate to the Kosovars of whatever

religion that it is up to them to take responsibility, that that is the essence 
of

the standards that we're pushing to try to turn over as much responsibility to 
them

as possible so that they can take charge of this territory


On the Ukrainian elections, I can only tell you how much -- you know we've

worked very hard to make clear to every possible element of Ukrainian 
leadership,

Ukrainian civil society, free media, et cetera, that the future of the Ukraine, 
the

future of Ukraine's integration into trans-Atlantic and European institutions

depends on a free and fair election.  And just as you very rightly said, this is

exactly the point that we've been pressing


Free and fair elections don't just happen on election day.  They happen in

all of the processes related to elections that take place months, if not years,

before.  We have been, frankly, working with the Ukrainian government on 
Ukrainian

elections for three years on the upcoming Ukrainian.  And, you know, to the 
point

that at times they said, "It's too early.  It's too early."  I said, "No, it's

not."  It's not too early to make sure that the institutions are in place, that 
it

is clear to everybody in the presidential administration throughout the country 
that

they may not misuse presidential administration apparatus to promote one 
candidate

over another, that there must be equal access by the candidates to the media.  
The

exercise of free media, permission to allow media to operate is an element of

assuring a free and fair election


Mr. Armitage was there in March pursuing this.  I had the opportunity to

address this question with a delegation of senior Ukrainians who came just this

week, the former foreign ministers Linko (ph) and a member of the presidential

administration, Mr. Fiealko (ph) to make exactly those points.  Most 
importantly,

virtually every single leader at the NATO Ukraine meeting at the summit in 
Istanbul

made exactly those same points, exactly those points.  So it's abundantly clear 
to

the Ukrainian leadership what it is that we're talking about, what it is that's

necessary to assure a free and fair election and how critical this is to 
Ukraine's

stated desires to be further integrated into Europe and the trans-Atlantic 
community


SMITH:  Ambassador, would you want to take on Belarus


KOZAK:  Well, you're quite right, Mr. Chairman, that, you know, there's a

crucial election coming up in Belarus at the middle of this coming month that 
now

includes this referendum on amending the constitution to get rid of the term 
limits

and allowing President Lukashenko run for yet another term.  I think some of the

things that are -- the conditions for the election are terrible.  We've all seen

them.  Media has been heavily repressed, fines, criminal libels.  Political 
leaders

have been put in jail as a way of intimidating them.  The control of the 
election

machinery remains in the hands of the government


But there have been some positive developments in Belarus as well.  Over the

last several years, working through our party institutes, NDI and IRI and with 
the

Europeans and with the OSCE, with the field mission there, a lot of training has

gone on of pro-democratic type forces.  And even before Lukashenko announced 
this

referendum, the polling that we were seeing was showing the opposition, generic

opposition candidates being within four points of pro-Lukashenko candidates in 
the

parliamentary election despite all of these disadvantages.  In part, that's 
because

they've been forced to go out and do it the old fashioned way of knocking on 
doors

and talking to people, which, as you know, has its effect


He's got a big challenge on this referendum.  The Belarussian constitution

requires that a majority of registered voters vote in favor of a referendum for 
it

to pass.  So if you figure he's got 70 percent turnout, which is about normal 
there 

- even if he got 70 percent of the vote, he'd still fail on the referendum in an

honest count


In the last year, I don't think his numbers have been above 30 percent in

terms of people saying they either favor strongly or might possibly favor his 
being

allowed to run again.  Consistently over 50 percent have said they're against 
it. 

So it's going to take some powerful and obvious fraud.  It's not, you know, 
shifting

numbers by 5 percent or something here.  It's going to take some major stuff 
and I

think bears watching


I think the key -- you asked the question what's the penalty.  There's not

much way to penalize the country more than he's already penalized it himself 
through

self-isolation from not only the Western world, but from even what's going on 
in the

immediate region.  But there may be ways -- and this is something we need to 
look at

more generally -- of how do we hold people accountable, people who participate 
in

election fraud, people who should be ensuring genuine elections and fair 
conditions

and so on but instead use their authority the other way.  And you had mentioned

earlier the value of targeted sanctions.  There may be some percentage to 
working it

there


I have watched in this particular case, I would say if the people in the

bureaucracy in Belarus had their choice, there would have been a different 
president

a long time ago.  But they're afraid.  They're afraid of losing their jobs.  
They're

afraid of what happens to their families.  And maybe if they had to worry about

concerns in the other direction of not carrying out fraud, they might be more

inclined to do their job honestly


SMITH:  Thank you very much, Mr. Ambassador.  I just have two final short

questions.  And we, the commission, deeply appreciate your patience.  But these

issues are very important to our commission and I know to you


One of the recommendations that came out of the Berlin conference, though,

in the implementation area had to do with hate crimes and the whole issue of law

enforcement.  We're working with Ambassador Ed O'Donnell on a provision or an 
idea

that Paul Goldenberg from the American Jewish Committee is working up and our

commission that would establish a trainers of the trainers so that police and 
law

enforcement personnel would be trained by those who know it intimately, but it 
would

be peer to peer type of training


It will take some money, and it's not yet to the point of final completion.

But I would just strongly encourage you, Madam Secretary, Madam Ambassador, to 
look

very favorably on this.  Because I think, you know, the more we have this kind 
of

training, you know, a well trained policeman knowing -- and this is part of the

problem.  Very often acts of anti-Semitic crime is just thought of as mere 
vandalism

when it's very clear that it's something that goes far beyond that.  And this 
would

apply to all hate crimes.  So I would ask you to take a good look at that

recommendation


And secondly, and again, this is my final question and then I'll go to Mr.

Ben Cardin for anything and Joe Pitts.  Joe's not here.  With regards to 
Kazakhstan,

again, I find it extremely disconcerting that they want to be the chairing 
office

for '09.  And again, that has to be done in calendar year '06.  Especially since

Nazaviev (ph) actually signed -- I think it was before you were ambassador in 
1992. 

And he signed the Helsinki Final Act and all those documents and follow-on

agreements that followed, including the Moscow statement in '91. 


Would we be willing to withhold consensus unless they either repudiated that

internal affairs and some of those other egregious statements that the group of 
nine

have signed onto?  Because that would radically alter the OSCE.  If internal 
affairs

can be put forward as a hedge when human rights discussions occur, we would be

hindered in our ability to promote human rights


JONES:  Thank you for your support for police training on hate crimes.  That

is something that makes a great deal of sense.  I don't have it in my head 
exactly

where the process stands on getting that going.  But it's certainly an area 
which

France, for example, has been very forthright and very much wants to pursue and 
is

pursuing. 


On Kazakhstan and on their desire to be chairman in office, we've made very

clear that Kazakhstan accepts that our support, frankly, support for not just 
from

the United States, but from many, many other member states depends on their

adherence to all of the principles of the OSCE.  That's certainly a watch word 
that

we have been using for, lo, these many years as a way to discuss with them why 
it is

our business to talk with Kazakhstan or with any other country about democracy

issues, human rights issues, economic reform issues, whatever it may be.  
Because

they have taken upon themselves their own free will to sign up for each of the

principles, to adhere to each of the principles of the document when they first

joined the organization


I can't tell you that we would withhold because of this reason or that

reason.  We'll take it all together when we get to that point.  But certainly a

pledge to adhere to everything, one of the principles, and demonstration of

adherence to the principles is what's important


CARDIN:  Well, let me thank all three of you for your testimonies here

today.  I wanted to follow-up just very quickly on Senator Grafstein's point 
about

the anti-Semitism follow-up in using the model for the United Nations and what 
we

can expect in the United Nations in regards to following up against 
anti-Semitism. 

It's been a rough road there, and I'm just curious as to whether we have a 
strategy

or expectations as to how the United Nations may play a role in the attention 
that

we have brought within the OSCE region to the rise of anti-Semitism


KOZAK:  Well, Mr. Cardin, we've actually been working in the U.N. for the

last few years as well as in OSCE.  I'd have to say I think you've made more 
stellar

progress perhaps.  But there have been some..


CARDIN:  You actually may have made more progress in the United Nations,

considering where they were.  I mean, it's..


KOZAK:  Yes, at least it's not Zionism as racism any more.  And in fact, we

were pleased in this last U.N. commission of human rights session in Geneva this

spring.  We managed to get good, strong references, condemnations of 
anti-Semitism

into three separate resolutions:  a resolution on religious intolerance, a

resolution on democracy and racism and another one on the follow-up to the 
Durban

conference, which we don't like the conference, but we do like the reference to 
anti

Semitism in that document


We were successful last year in the UNGA in getting two of those resolutions

with anti-Semitism references in them.  And we're going to go for all three of 
them

this fall as well, and I think with reasonably good prospects.  So at least the 
U.N.

organs are making appropriate references and acknowledging the problem as a 
serious

problem.  Doing something about it is a different issue.  But at least we've got

(inaudible)


CARDIN:  We wish you the best in your efforts there.  I do think Senator

Grafstein's point is correct, though.  As OSCE has raised the bar, it makes it a

little bit more difficult for the United Nations to continue its path in this

regard.  So perhaps there's hope


Thank you, Mr. Chairman


SMITH:  Thank you very much, Mr. Cardin


I want to thank our three very distinguished witnesses for your excellent

testimony and your great work on behalf of our country.  This commission 
appreciates

it as well as the give and take of, you know, we make recommendations, you make 
them

back.  It's the best, I think, in the interest of, you know, the executive 
branch

and legislative.  So we do thank you for that


We do have some additional questions that we'd like to submit.  We've run

out of time.  If you could get back to us for the record, we'd appreciate it


JONES:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  We very much appreciate the interest of

the commission, we truly do


SMITH:  Thank you


JONES:  Thank you


SMITH:  Appreciate it.  The hearing's adjourned


                    [Whereupon the hearing ended at 12:19 p.m.


EN